| Author | Topic: why transpose? |
 Taciturn
Registered User
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8/3/2003 | posted: 9/19/2003 at 11:43:58 PM ET
As you probably know, some instruments have to transpose written music. The notes on the page are not the actual tones they play... they must move them all down a 5th or something. Like a C written on the page would really be an F (a 5th down).
There has got to be something I'm not getting, because I do not understand the point in that. Why do they do that? It just seems completely idiotic to me, but I don't fully understand it so I'm thinking there must be some logical explanation. Why can't the C on the page mean C?
And also, on certain instruments, MUST the music written be transposed, or does the piece specify that it should be? I really have no idea on this.
Anyone who's played a Bb instrument would probably know. I assume it's the Bb instruments that do this? Help me out in understanding this!
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 craneclassical
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From:
Atlanta, Ga
Registered:
9/5/2003 | posted: 9/20/2003 at 11:27:26 AM ET
Good Question! Transposition mainly develped from the french horn, before there were valves...each piece that had horn in it, required a dirrerent instrument. The composer wrote in c. That was the origin. The main reason that transposition remained in use, was to keep more of the main register of the instrument on the staff proper, avoiding too many ledger lines. This is the same reason why the viola uses alto clef, and when going higher, switches to treble....much like 'cello going to tenor and treble as well...hope this helps Adam
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Taciturn
Registered User
Registered:
8/3/2003 | posted: 9/20/2003 at 11:42:09 AM ET
In that case, why can't the clef just be changed in the music, like it is for some stringed instruments?
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craneclassical
Registered User
From:
Atlanta, Ga
Registered:
9/5/2003 | posted: 9/20/2003 at 3:54:05 PM ET
True, this is occasionally done with Low French Horn. As for clef changing.....it could be an option, however, most people read treble, then bass, then some "c" clef....
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Taciturn
Registered User
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8/3/2003 | posted: 9/20/2003 at 5:13:50 PM ET
What difference does that make? They simply learn another clef. It's what strings have to do.
I just don't get how like, on a Bb instrument, they say that when they play a C, it sounds like a Bb. Well um... then it's not a C, it's a Bb. Why do they use that termonology? If it sounds like a Bb, it's a Bb, not a C, so it makes no sense to me how they say their C sounds like a Bb. C = C, Bb = Bb. C sounds like a C no matter what.
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craneclassical
Registered User
From:
Atlanta, Ga
Registered:
9/5/2003 | posted: 9/20/2003 at 6:07:03 PM ET
It became tradition over hundreds of years....agreed or not it is the standard...there are 7 clefs
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trumpet guru
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From:
Washington State
Registered:
8/22/2003 | posted: 9/20/2003 at 11:30:00 PM ET
Brass instruments have a "fundamental tone" which is to say the basic tone on which the overtone series is based. The fundamental tone is determined by the bore and length of the tubing. Players would use different "crooks" (set of slides) to play in different keys. The Composer would ask for the key desired. When the music modulated to other keys, the players would have to switch crooks making their instrument follow the overtone series of a different fundamental note. They basically played the root and fifth tenth and twelfth of any given key(unless played in the extreme upper register as in the Brandendurg Concertos and other compositions of the time). I am sure you have heard the brass parts sound this way in Mozart, Beethoven and others. Before valves allowed the instrument to play all chromatic tones, the players had to make their instruments longer, or shorter to be able to play in different keys. So the instrument WAS actually in a different key itself. Calling it by it's fundamental tone actually allows the player to avoid transposing. The composer transposes so the player does not have to. It's a physics thing . . . so to speak. The brass player would have had to use different fingerings for the same written note depending on the key(even more confusing). Tough to explain, but necessary. Different "keys" of trumpets are commonly used today. Much (most) of the orchestral repertoire calls for "C" trumpet. Much of the Classical solo repertoire is best performed on Eb trumpet (like the Haydn and Hummel concertos). Because they were written for that instrument, the valve combinations and intervals are best achieved on the Eb trumpet. Many players prefer to play the Brandenburg Concertos on F trumpet for the same reasons. The Bb trumpet is the standard used in band music and jazz. I guess it is tough for non brass players to understand how this makes our life easier and how it historically developed but. . . . .
GOOOOOOROOOOOO
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Taciturn
Registered User
Registered:
8/3/2003 | posted: 9/21/2003 at 7:03:43 PM ET
Difficult indeed. In my mind, I'm just thinking a C on the page should equal a C on the instrument... that, to me, seems like the simplest way. Hopefully I'll soon understand this whole concept more clearly as my music career progresses.
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