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Topic: Vocals, Rhythm, and Rests
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AuthorTopic:   Vocals, Rhythm, and Rests
maintube
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Registered:
5/26/2004
posted: 4/25/2006 at 11:08:05 PM ET
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7. With lead guitar solos, or any solos for that matter, do they have to follow again the same 4/4 beat pattern if the song is in 4/4? Do solos always last for a certain length of bars, or can they end/start at any beat of any bar? Do the notes in solos follow the time signature of the song? If in 4/4 time, do the notes of a solo follow formations of triplets, quarternotes, etc, and do sustains and other guitar tricks also have to stay in beat?

Solos still follow the constraits of music rules, they just do them at thier own pace. They also are spontanious as opposed to written out, but still they follow the pulse of the music. You COULD, perhaps play a solo in 3/4 in a 4/4 song, but it would just sound strange or musical taste would make you play it to fit the 4/4 patterns.

gg
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4/25/2006
posted: 4/25/2006 at 11:19:35 PM ET
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maintube, thank-you very much for your time/effort in answering all my questions. You've been a great help.

I understood everything, but can you please elaborate a little on "tempo markings", and can you confirm something, re singing -- based on what you said, therefore, is it considered good practice or is it considered imperative that the start of each lyric should hit the same beat of each bar? And when a long lyric runs over two or more bars, it can end on the 3rd beat, with the next lyric starting on the 4th beat would be okay, as long as that next lyric ultimately ends within a bar (rests included)? Or is it that if a long lyric ends on the 3rd beat of bar, there should be a rest on the fourth, before the next lyric can start at the first beat of the next bar?

Sorry for all the questions, many thanks though.

Pete
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From:
North Coast NSW, Australia

Registered:
3/20/2005
posted: 4/26/2006 at 5:23:54 AM ET
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What, maintube, finished re-writing the Old Testament already, and at a loss for something to occupy your mind..?
Just a comment on your last vocal question, as maintube recharges the battries..every piece of music is interpreted differently by different musicans and vocalists each time they play or sing it. To attempt to apply a rigid unbendable mechanism as you seem to see as the norm is in fact very unusual- and very boring.

gg
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4/25/2006
posted: 4/27/2006 at 5:12:33 AM ET
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Pete, thanks for your reply.

I'm not suggesting that vocals should be like that, or are like that. I am actually lacking knowledge how vocals fit into beats, rhythms and rests.

Maintube states that vocals should generally fit the time signature, as they are another instrument themselves.

Where I am confused is that when I listen to songs, I can't tell for sure what the general rule of thumb is, as there DOES seem to be a general rule of thumb for vocalists. I'm just not sure what it is.

I hear songs where the singer hits the same beats, same bars. Songs where the singers interpretation of how the lyrics are sung actually match the rhythmic beat of the guitar/drums. Songs where the singer is not matching the beat, or comes in at different beats from bar to bar. etc etc.

I am confused therefore. If there are certain rules that instruments generally abide by, under 4/4 or 3/4 (etc) time signatures, then how does singing itself correlate to time signature etc?

Like, if there are no rigid rules like hitting the right beat all the time etc, there might be or are still certain general rules for singing. I'd like to know what they are.

Pete
Registered User

From:
North Coast NSW, Australia

Registered:
3/20/2005
posted: 4/27/2006 at 12:05:10 PM ET
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Perhaps you are overlooking the profound difference in vocal styles, which, just as in the case of any instrument, vary according to the time and culture which produced them. Thus, one would expect to find syncopation in Latin-American vocal styles, glissandos in Indian, note-bending and the use of pentatonic scales in Blues, modes in plainsong, and so on? And I wonder just how many singers, once they have finished their training, are conciously aware of where and how they are placing their note? Most, I find, just sing, and each time they perform a piece is a new vocal journey for them...

gg
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4/25/2006
posted: 4/27/2006 at 12:57:52 PM ET
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Once again, thanks for your reply.

I understand what you're saying and implying with that excellent reply.

I am aware of the differences in musical genre, culture, and time signatures. Therefore, singing in relation to those. In a way, that is exactly what I and maintube were touching on, that singing does follow (to some extent) the musical aspects - latin-american, indian, blues, hymns, etc.

You kind of emphasized that point by pointing out that different musical styles require different singing practices.

However, I understand your implied message...which is that while it is important when singing to suit the music style/genre/culture of the music itself, it is also important to be free and interpretive, to be creative and just whatever sounds/feel right to the music.

I understand and agree, just wanted to push the question in case there ARE rules of thumb for singing, in case there are certain good practices to keep in mind when singing a song (in whatever style/genre/culture). Certain universal rules or good practices.

So, in a way, I am still unsure IF there are any, what they are. All I knew before, as I know now after both your replies, is that with singing, it's entirely interpretive and just has to sound right. Before I go ahead and record my songs, I just wanted to be 100% sure I wasn't making any big mistakes.

I hope you can appreciate this, as I am not as knowledgable as yourself or maintube. And therefore seeking some advice.

Pete
Registered User

From:
North Coast NSW, Australia

Registered:
3/20/2005
posted: 4/28/2006 at 12:44:04 AM ET
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I'm sure maintube would join me in wishing you every possible success..lets hope they sell in the millions

maintube
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Registered:
5/26/2004
posted: 4/28/2006 at 3:24:56 PM ET
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If you sing a song that is in your head, at some point it will need to be put to music in order for the back-up musicians to play. When it is put to music it will fit a musical pattern. You may not know what that pattern is, but there will be one.


BTW I like to refer to it, not as the Old Testament, but the New Testament according to Bernstein.

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